Transformation is a tricky word in Christian circles, particularly when we’re talking about sexuality. What does it mean to be “transformed”? For a gay man, does it mean “no longer gay”? And what does that mean??

We talked with Nate Oyloe and Luca Jo Groppoli from Agape First Ministries, an organization dedicated to discipling and seeking God’s transformation. In our framing on this podcast, we would call their organization “side X”—that is, generally pursuing and seeing the good in people becoming “ex gay.” Since this isn’t a position we (David and TJ) hold, we were eager to have a conversation about our similarities and differences: personal stories, theological and pastoral approaches, and what the heck transformation could mean. It’s a tough one.

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About Our Guests

Pastor Nate Oyloe is the founder and director of Agape First Ministries. Nate has ministered to the sexually and relationally broken since 2000. He has taught nationally on issues of gender and the redemptive power of God. He and his wife, two sons, and daughter live in Minneapolis, MN.Luca Jo Groppoli is an ordained graduate of Christ for the Nation's Bible College. Luca serves as the associate director with Agape First Ministries and is passionate about disciple making and sharing that Jesus can and does, in fact, transform people, sharing her own story of living as a transgender male for over three decades.

www.agapefirstministries.org

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Note: This episode uses the terms “Side X” and “Side B” (and others) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(00:46) Introducing Nate and Luca

(08:09) What has finding freedom meant to you?

(10:59) Why Agape First? What is it you do?

(17:04) What's the nature of same-sex attraction: psychological, traumatic, biological, spiritual?

(36:10) Transformation: shifting away from same-sex attraction?

(57:06) Praying for healing: over disabilities, over sexuality?

(01:01:52) Statistics and experience: does being "ex-gay" actually stick?

(01:09:58) Is side B more dangerous than side A?

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Credits

Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza

Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)

Podcast Manager: Elena