Online Learning in the Second Half

By: John Nash & Jason Johnston
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  • Summary

  • In this podcast, John Nash and Jason Johnston take public their two-year long conversation about online education and their aspirations for its future. They acknowledge that while some online learning has been great, there is still a lot of room for improvement. While technology and innovation will be a topic of discussion, the conversation will focus on how to get online learning to the next stage, the second half of life.
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Episodes
  • EP 30 - Dr. Omid Fotuhi and the Sense of Belonging in Online Learning

    EP 30 - Dr. Omid Fotuhi and the Sense of Belonging in Online Learning
    Sep 9 2024
    In this episode, John and Jason talk with Dr. Omid Fotuhi, a research associate at the University of Pittsburgh and the Director of Learning Innovation at WGU Labs, about the notion of belonging in the evolving landscape of online learning. They discuss the WGU model and how it breaks traditional barriers through competency-based, self-paced education, the critical role of fostering a sense of belonging for student success, the need for institutions to move beyond temporary interventions to address deeper structural issues, and the future of education where learning becomes more independent. See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too) Links and Resources: Inscribe - Community-based educational software application"Where and with whom does a brief social-belonging intervention promote progress in college?” Article https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade4420 Dr. Omid Fotuhi Contact Information LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omidfotuhi/ Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! [00:00:00] Omid Fotuhi: The notion and the assumption that learning happens best, as measured by seat time, the number of hours you spend. [00:00:07] Omid Fotuhi: Ha. [00:00:08] John Nash: So [00:00:09] Jason Johnston: rookie mistake, John. Come on. We haven't quite been at this a year yet, Omid. so… [00:00:15] John Nash: My phone is off, but my Macintosh rang [00:00:18] Omid Fotuhi: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [00:00:21] John Nash: I'm John Nash here with Jason Johnston. [00:00:25] Jason Johnston: Hey, John. Hey everyone. And this is online learning in the second half, the online learning podcast. [00:00:31] John Nash: Yeah, we're doing this podcast to let you in on a conversation we've been having for the last two years about online education. Look, online learning has had its chance to be great and some of it is, but still, a lot of it really isn't. And so Jason, how are we going to get to the next stage? [00:00:47] Jason Johnston: That's a great question, John. How about we do a podcast and talk about it? [00:00:51] John Nash: I think that's a great idea. What do you want to talk about today? [00:00:55] Jason Johnston: Today we are joined by Dr. Omid Fatouhi. Omid, welcome to the podcast. [00:01:01] Omid Fotuhi: Thank you. It's great to be here. [00:01:03] Jason Johnston: Can we call you Omid? [00:01:05] Omid Fotuhi: That sounds great. [00:01:06] Jason Johnston: Okay. Omid is a research associate at the University of Pittsburgh and director of learning innovation at WGU labs. So great to have you here to talk with us today. [00:01:17] Omid Fotuhi: I look forward to it. [00:01:19] Jason Johnston: You and I, we met over dinner through the company Inscribe at a conference. And one of the things that, of course, immediately, just made me realize that you were just a great guy is our common love of Canada We talked about living in Canada and talked a little bit about longing to live in Canada again. And so I appreciated that. And then we connected, of course, over the topic of online and the panel that this company Inscribe, which I can put a link in, great people, cool product. Not paid by them. But I'll put a link to our show notes. But they connected us over this idea of belonging, student belonging online, which is a huge topic. And we'll get into that because you've done some research. in this area. But first, we wanted to get to know you a little bit and just to chat about that. Tell us a little bit about your current roles and where you are living right now. [00:02:17] Omid Fotuhi: Yeah, I think the best way to describe my current role is as a fish trying to climb a tree. If you've heard the expression that you shouldn't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, nonetheless, that's what I am. It's akin to what's also known as the Peter Principle, which is to say that if you're trying skilled and competent, you'll eventually be promoted into incompetence, often into management. And that's not too far from the truth with where I am, except that I've been able to create a pretty unique situation for myself. So I am a trained social psychologist by training. That's where a lot of my thinking and a lot of the way that I look at things comes from. And currently, I'm working for WG Labs which is a R& D arm of Western Governors University, which does focus on how it is that we can create the technological tools and the research base to understand how to optimize learning for students, both in traditional but also online ...
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    58 mins
  • EP 29 - Dr. Ericka Hollis - Teaching in the Digital Age: Cultivating Belonging and Excellence Online

    EP 29 - Dr. Ericka Hollis - Teaching in the Digital Age: Cultivating Belonging and Excellence Online
    Jul 29 2024
    In this episode, John and Jason talk to Ericka Hollis, PhD, about silence as liberatory practice, student backchannels, belonging in the online classroom, and leadership challenges with professional development. See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - *Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too)* Links and Resources: Great list of foundational articles on the Community of InquiryACUE's Effective Teaching Framework for Higher EducationJohn’s paper on online discussions: “A Tale of Two Forums: One Professor's Path to Improve Learning through a Common Online Teaching Tool”Dr. Ericka Hollis Contact Information ACUE PageEmail: ehollis@acue.orgLinkedInTwiiter / X Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! Mic Check [00:00:00] Jason Johnston: Hey, John, could I ask you will you tilt your mic back a little bit? I'm sorry to be so mic-picky these days. [00:00:09] John Nash: Should I talk while I do that? Here's where it was and now I'm still talking and here's where it's going and now it's here. [00:00:17] Jason Johnston: Yeah, that's pretty good. [00:00:19] John Nash: I do appreciate your pickiness. I do. Silence as Liberatory Practice [00:00:21] Jason Johnston: All right. As you can see, this is pretty pretty tight operation we run here. The Online Learning Podcast. Heh. We basically When we started it, we decided that we would just do what we could do. You know what I mean? And we're having a good time. And I think that, I, we're getting some good responses from it. I think people that listen and we produce it up to the level that we can manage. And yeah. And this is it. [00:00:50] John Nash: I especially like the silences. It's a solace, not soul less. It's a SOLACE. [00:00:57] Jason Johnston: Solace. The silences. Yeah. [00:01:00] John Nash: Yes. [00:01:00] Ericka Hollis: One of the effective teaching practices is wait time. Most of the time in education, we don't wait long enough. So for someone to actually think and respond, right? There's research behind that when you jump right in. And so I love awkward silence. I'm really an introvert. Although most of my career, I do things that are very extroverted. So I'm okay with the pause and the solace, if you will, John. Yeah, [00:01:30] John Nash: we'll just do Erica Hollis episode and we'll just have it be 40 minutes of no talking. [00:01:36] Jason Johnston: Yeah. Like John Cage, if you're familiar with his pieces. He sits at the piano and he's got sheet music and it's all blank. After four minutes and thirty three seconds, packs up the sheet music and then goes. But I feel you on that. I'm an introvert as well. And I'm also, I feel like I'm slower, sometimes slower to respond, especially in a classroom where I'm taking in a lot of stimulus. And so I always found in the face to face classrooms, I would think of really like good things to say, like later two hours later, or good questions to ask, but it was rarely like right in the moment. It was like, it was always later which is one of the things I liked about online learning is that it was the asynchronous gave some simmer time for me and some time to think about things and to be able to respond some. [00:02:29] Ericka Hollis: I think that's a fair point. That's one of the reasons I have one of my youngest sister is she has extreme social anxiety, and she has just done so much better in asynchronous online courses, even as an undergraduate student. Just because that works better for her, instead of being like called on in the class, like cold calling, we cold call on people. And some people are like, yeah, they jump right in. And some people you can see like terror in their face when you call on them. And so I think it's a very good point in thinking about who's in your classroom and what actually works for them. And are you giving everyone like the same level playing field where I feel like in a face to face class, even in a synchronous Zoom class, it favors an extrovert, right? One that wants to put their hand up. It doesn't really favor those who are still thinking, still processing, in that kind of way. So that's one of the things I do enjoy about it the most from a like, pedagogical, andragogical standpoint, like the process time, the wait time. [00:03:36] Jason Johnston: So like silence as a liberatory practice. [00:03:42] John Nash: Oh, I like that. [00:03:44] Jason Johnston: I think that makes a lot of sense, and even the way that Zoom is made, those , that feel comfortable being seen, and they have their video on, are going to pop to the top, right? [00:03:57] Ericka Hollis: Yeah, [00:03:57] Jason Johnston: So those that...
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    53 mins
  • EP 28 - Spring 24 Check-in focusing on AI in Education: Navigating Ethics, Innovation, Academic Honesty, and the Human Presence online.

    EP 28 - Spring 24 Check-in focusing on AI in Education: Navigating Ethics, Innovation, Academic Honesty, and the Human Presence online.
    Jun 17 2024
    In this Spring 2024 check-in, John and Jason talk about AI-created voices, the importance of human presence in online education, the challenges of AI detection like Turnitin, and insights from their spring conferences and presentations. See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com Join Our LinkedIn Group - *Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too)* Links and Resources: Eleven labs AI voice generation (on OpenAI)John's deck from his presentation at ASBMB - AI as an instructional designer and a tutor.The Ezra Klein Show - Interviewing Dario Amodei Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License. Transcript We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections! False Start: John Nash: Okay, we'll get AI to fix that. Jason Johnston: You can maybe get AI to fix that. Intro: AI Speaker 1: Hi, I’m not John Nash and I’m not here with Jason Johnston. AI Speaker 2: Hey, not-John. Hey, everyone. And this is Online Learning in the Second Half, the online learning podcast. AI Speaker 1: Yeah, and we are doing this podcast to let you all in on a conversation we’ve been having about online education for the last few years. Look, online learning has had its chance to be great and some of it is, but some of it isn’t. What are we going to do to get to the next stage, not-Jason? AI Speaker 2: That’s a great question. How about we do a podcast and talk about it? AI Speaker 1: That sounds great. What do you want to talk about today? AI Speaker 2: I’ve got a big question for you not-John. Are you ready? AI Speaker 1: Okay, shoot. AI Speaker 2: If we carefully and lovingly create a script for an online learning video (or podcast) but then have AI-created voices read that script. Are we humanizing or de-humanizing online learning? AI Speaker 1: I’m just a text-based large language model chat-bot and I don’t think I’m equipped to answer that question. Maybe we should bring in the real John and Jason? John? Jason? What do you think? John Nash: I think it's a great question, real Jason. Jason Johnston: Yeah, real John. It's it's good to see you in real Zoom. and that is a great question that this our chatbots pose for us today. And I think that yeah, I'm not, what do you have any initial responses to the question if we use AI tools to lovingly create our scripts for online videos or for podcasts, are we dehumanizing or are we, humanizing these experiences John Nash: Well, it's a classic academic answer, isn't it? It depends. Jason Johnston: Depends. John Nash: But I think used exclusively, I think it does dehumanize. I think used judiciously and with an agenda to humanize, I think they could be helpful, but the jury's probably out because it's all context, isn't it? Jason Johnston: Yeah, definitely context and it gets into some philosophical questions as well, when we talk about humanizing. There is the act, there is the perception, right? And so, this goes back to some of the things that are going on even with AI telehealth, and so on. Or AI therapy. If the people don't know, does it matter? Does it feel human? Have they had the experience of being with a human, even though it wasn't a human? And then does it matter? I guess there's a ethical question about, It matters because we want to be transparent and we want to be honest with people and so on. But if at the end of the day they feel like that they've been in a humanized situation and it gives them maybe a positive outcome for them. John Nash: Yes. Yes. Yes. I think we discussed that last year a little bit. Yes. So essentially what we're saying is that if we fake them into feeling belonging, then that's okay. Jason Johnston: yeah. As long as maybe we're not being dishonest with them. Or maybe not, I shouldn't say maybe. As long as we're not being dishonest with them. I think that would be the cutoff for me. If people knew what was going on. John Nash: Okay. Fair. I think so. You say you're about to engage in a scenario that we've created that is designed to help you feel more belonging with regard to the activities we're doing as a group, maybe in our class. We used artificial intelligence, generative AI to create some of that, and we'd like you to engage in it, and then let us know. I think that would, Jason: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So, we started with this. This was a, there was a moment which you could invoke Eleven Labs this company through Chat GPT, you could invoke their GPT to create voices for you. And I was just playing around with it and came up with these, this intro script because I thought it would be fun just Jason Johnston: to, Just to Jason: start off, I'm not planning to replace you, John, just so you know. There's, I have no intention on replacing you. I'm, I enjoy ...
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    35 mins

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