In this special three-part series of the Relationship Matters Podcast, Katie Churchman talks with trauma-informed coach Michael Forlenza. Across the next three episodes, they explore one of the most important yet often overlooked topics in coaching: trauma.

In part 1, Michael and Katie explore how coaches can develop the skills to identify and understand the presence of trauma in their clients and the importance of awareness in creating a safe and supportive coaching environment.

What you’ll gain from this conversation:

1. Gain the ability to recognize trauma in coaching relationships and understand why it’s critical to address, even when it’s not immediately visible.
2. Understand trauma as a spectrum and how it impacts clients differently, allowing you to respond more effectively to their unique needs.
3. Learn how to create a safe, trauma-aware coaching environment that fosters trust and emotional safety for your clients.
4. Develop clarity on the boundaries between coaching and therapy and know when to refer clients to specialized professionals for further support.
5. Learn to honor and recognize the body’s natural responses to trauma, helping your clients feel validated and supported throughout their coaching journey.

Michael Forlenza, PhD, MPH, PCC, TIPC, is an experienced trauma-informed coach, leadership consultant, and educator with over a decade of experience working with leaders across sectors like healthcare, finance, and education. He previously served as Assistant Dean at Duquesne University, where he helped establish an ICF-accredited Executive Coaching Program. Currently, he is a Senior Faculty Member at Lodestar Consulting, focusing on trauma-responsive leadership and coaching. Alongside being an ORSC practitioner, Michael holds advanced certifications in Internal Family Systems, Trauma-Informed Coaching, and mindfulness-based practices and continues to teach and consult on leadership and organizational trauma healing.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Across this Masterclass on ORSC Essentials, you’ll experience the transformative power of ORSC, which integrates systems thinking with coaching techniques to enhance relationships, navigate change, and foster collaboration. The masterclass will introduce you to leading experts in the field who explore some of the key mindsets and methodologies that define this powerful framework for coaching and life. Whether you’re new to ORSC or seeking to deepen your practice, this masterclass will offer insights into how ORSC can be applied across personal, professional, and organizational contexts to create more resilient and dynamic systems & a healthier and more connected world.

Guests featured in this Masterclass episode (all hyperlinked to their respective episodes) are as follows:

• S.1.7 - Faith Fuller
• S.4.7 - Marita Fridjhon
• S.4.19- Sandra Cain & Maddie Weinreich
• S.5.14 - Frank Uit de Weerd
• S.4.B1 - Judy Van Zon & Katherine Starks
• S.2.10 - Floyd Carlson
• S.5.15 - Nairy McMahon
• S.4.10 - Cynthia Loyd Darst
• S.5.3 - Kiki Kesseler
• S.1.14 - Faith Fuller

Masterclass Series: This is a specially curated collection of episodes from the podcast archives designed to provide both a taster of the Organizational & Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) approach and a valuable refresher on its breadth and potential. Each episode explores key concepts and themes of the ORSC approach, offering practical insights on enhancing relationships, managing change, and fostering collaboration in various contexts. Join us to learn how ORSC can help you build stronger, more resilient systems in both personal and professional spheres.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Merger and Individuation in personal and relationship growth

In the premiere of season 6 of the Relationship Matters podcast, host Katie Churchman is joined by CRR Global co-founder Faith Fuller to discuss the delicate balance between individuation and merging in relationships. Together, they explore how honoring both individuality and connection is essential for building healthy, resilient partnerships. How can we be true to ourselves while fully committing to our relationships? How does recognizing this balance contribute to healthier, more resilient partnerships?

What you’ll gain from this conversation:

1. Insights into the importance of balancing “me” and “we” in relationships.
2. Strategies for supporting individual growth while maintaining connection.
3. Tips for fostering mutual support in partnerships.
4. Practical tools for navigating boundaries and closeness.
5. Understanding the role of communication in balancing autonomy and intimacy.

Faith Fuller, PhD, is co-founder of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples, and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed for effective change to occur. Her particular skill empowers powerful, productive, and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships, and teams. She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution, and community crisis intervention.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this 4-part bonus series on ORSC and parenting, Katie Churchman explores parenting through the lens of ORSC with CRR Global Co-founder Faith Fuller and senior faculty member Sandra Cain. Across this 4-part bonus series, Sandra takes the role of host, allowing Katie to embrace being a guest on the show as a new mum to twin girls. These 4 episodes were recorded across a 6-month period, so different life experiences, challenges, and changes have informed the evolution of this conversation. Part 1 provides an overview of the topic, and parts 2, 3, and 4 explore ORSC and parenting through the different relationship dimensions: Relationship Intelligence, Relationship Geography, and Relationship Path.

In part 4, we look at parenting through the lens of Relationship Path. This includes dreaming, original myth, 3 levels of reality and myth change.

Sandra Cain coaches individuals, pairs, and teams around the world. Her background includes 15 years of experience at American Express with various leadership and personal development roles. In addition to leading the CRR Global Core Curriculum, she is also Associate Director of the Certification Program and on faculty for The Coaches Training Institute. Her stand for this work is that since we’re already in relationships, we might as well be conscious and intentional about who we are, what we do, and how we live.

Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples, and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed for effective change to occur. Her particular skill empowers powerful, productive, and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships, and teams. She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution, and community crisis intervention.

Katie Churchman hosts the Relationship Matters podcast and is a Front of the Room faculty member at CRR Global. As an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC), certified in Organisational & Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSCC) & the ICF’s Advanced Certification in Team Coaching (ACTC), Katie helps leaders, teams & organizations find clarity & direction so that they can take ownership of goals and achieve results. Her coaching sessions are designed to deliver maximum impact and measurable growth specific to business objectives, professional aspirations & personal goals. Katie is passionate about bringing great communication skills & leadership development to organizations worldwide to build positive cultures & create tangible, sustainable change. Katie specializes in coaching individuals & teams across various areas, including Leadership Development, Change Mindset, Personal Impact, Presentation Skills, Effective Communication, and Storytelling. She is goal-orientated and energetic & enjoys working with a fun, focused approach.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time.

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this 4-part bonus series on ORSC and parenting, Katie Churchman explores parenting through the lens of ORSC with CRR Global Co-founder Faith Fuller and senior faculty member Sandra Cain. Across this 4-part bonus series, Sandra takes the role of host, allowing Katie to embrace being a guest on the show as a new mum to twin girls. These 4 episodes were recorded across a 6-month period, so different life experiences, challenges, and changes have informed the evolution of this conversation. Part 1 provides an overview of the topic, and parts 2, 3, and 4 explore ORSC and parenting through the different relationship dimensions: Relationship Intelligence, Relationship Geography, and Relationship Path.

In part 3, we look at parenting through the lens of Relationship Geography. This includes lands, inner and outer roles, and time-spirits,

Sandra Cain coaches individuals, pairs, and teams around the world. Her background includes 15 years of experience at American Express with various leadership and personal development roles. In addition to leading the CRR Global Core Curriculum, she is also Associate Director of the Certification Program and on faculty for The Coaches Training Institute. Her stand for this work is that since we’re already in relationships, we might as well be conscious and intentional about who we are, what we do, and how we live.

Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples, and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed for effective change to occur. Her particular skill empowers powerful, productive, and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships, and teams. She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution, and community crisis intervention.

Katie Churchman hosts the Relationship Matters podcast and is a Front of the Room faculty member at CRR Global. As an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC), certified in Organisational & Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSCC) & the ICF’s Advanced Certification in Team Coaching (ACTC), Katie helps leaders, teams & organizations find clarity & direction so that they can take ownership of goals and achieve results. Her coaching sessions are designed to deliver maximum impact and measurable growth specific to business objectives, professional aspirations & personal goals. Katie is passionate about bringing great communication skills & leadership development to organizations worldwide to build positive cultures & create tangible, sustainable change. Katie specializes in coaching individuals & teams across various areas, including Leadership Development, Change Mindset, Personal Impact, Presentation Skills, Effective Communication, and Storytelling. She is goal-orientated and energetic & enjoys working with a fun, focused approach.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time.

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this 4-part bonus series on ORSC and parenting, Katie Churchman explores parenting through the lens of ORSC with CRR Global Co-founder Faith Fuller and senior faculty member Sandra Cain. Across this 4-part bonus series, Sandra takes the role of host, allowing Katie to embrace being a guest on the show as a new mum to twin girls. These 4 episodes were recorded across a 6-month period, so different life experiences, challenges, and changes have informed the evolution of this conversation. Part 1 provides an overview of the topic, and parts 2, 3, and 4 explore ORSC and parenting through the different relationship dimensions: Relationship Intelligence, Relationship Geography, and Relationship Path.

In part 2, we look at parenting through the lens of Relationship Intelligence. This includes edge-crossing, rank, deep democracy, the constant nature of change, and the idea of “who knows what is good or what is bad.”

Sandra Cain coaches individuals, pairs, and teams around the world. Her background includes 15 years of experience at American Express with various leadership and personal development roles. In addition to leading the CRR Global Core Curriculum, she is also Associate Director of the Certification Program and on faculty for The Coaches Training Institute. Her stand for this work is that since we’re already in relationships, we might as well be conscious and intentional about who we are, what we do, and how we live.

Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples, and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed for effective change to occur. Her particular skill empowers powerful, productive, and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships, and teams. She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution, and community crisis intervention.

Katie Churchman hosts the Relationship Matters podcast and a Front of the Room faculty member at CRR Global. As an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC), certified in Organisational & Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSCC) & the ICF’s Advanced Certification in Team Coaching (ACTC), Katie helps leaders, teams & organizations find clarity & direction so that they can take ownership of goals and achieve results. Her coaching sessions are designed to deliver maximum impact and measurable growth specific to business objectives, professional aspirations & personal goals. Katie is passionate about bringing great communication skills & leadership development to organizations worldwide to build positive cultures & create tangible, sustainable change. Katie specializes in coaching individuals & teams across various areas, including Leadership Development, Change Mindset, Personal Impact, Presentation Skills, Effective Communication, and Storytelling. She is goal-orientated and energetic & enjoys working with a fun, focused approach.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time.

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this 4-part bonus series on ORSC and parenting, Katie Churchman explores parenting through the lens of ORSC with CRR Global Co-founder Faith Fuller and senior faculty member Sandra Cain. Across this 4-part bonus series, Sandra takes the role of host, allowing Katie to embrace being a guest on the show as a new mum to twin girls. These 4 episodes were recorded across a 6-month period, so different life experiences, challenges, and changes have informed the evolution of this conversation. Part 1 provides an overview of the topic, and parts 2, 3, and 4 explore ORSC and parenting through the different relationship dimensions: Relationship Intelligence, Relationship Geography, and Relationship Path.

Part 1 provides a flyover of some of the ways ORSC can help us to understand parenting. Looking through the lens of ORSC, what can we learn about parenting, and what can it teach us about ourselves at a personal, relational, and societal level?

Sandra Cain coaches individuals, pairs, and teams around the world. Her background includes 15 years of experience at American Express with various leadership and personal development roles. In addition to leading the CRR Global Core Curriculum, she is also Associate Director of the Certification Program and on faculty for The Coaches Training Institute. Her stand for this work is that since we’re already in relationships, we might as well be conscious and intentional about who we are, what we do, and how we live.

Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples, and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed for effective change to occur. Her particular skill empowers powerful, productive, and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships, and teams. She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution, and community crisis intervention.

Katie Churchman hosts the Relationship Matters podcast and a Front of the Room faculty member at CRR Global. As an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC), certified in Organisational & Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSCC) & the ICF’s Advanced Certification in Team Coaching (ACTC), Katie helps leaders, teams & organizations find clarity & direction so that they can take ownership of goals and achieve results. Her coaching sessions are designed to deliver maximum impact and measurable growth specific to business objectives, professional aspirations & personal goals. Katie is passionate about bringing great communication skills & leadership development to organizations worldwide to build positive cultures & create tangible, sustainable change. Katie specializes in coaching individuals & teams across various areas, including Leadership Development, Change Mindset, Personal Impact, Presentation Skills, Effective Communication, and Storytelling. She is goal-orientated and energetic & enjoys working with a fun, focused approach.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time.

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this episode, Katie talks with senior faculty member at CRR Global, David Wikander, about the importance of listening to understand in our relationships. Across this conversation, they discuss:

• What does it mean to really listen?
• What leads to us feeling misunderstood or unheard in our relationships?
• The impact of energy on our listening
• The importance of timing when it comes to listening
• Creating skilful behavioral contracts with our partners around WHEN and HOW we listen

David Wikander is a Senior Faculty member with CRR Global, certified with Team Diagnostic, and a certified Co-Active Coach. David’s approach is systems & relationship-oriented, whether he is working with teams, couples or individuals. This approach holds that we are always in relationship, whether the relationship is to the many aspects of our self, the relationship we have with others in our personal life, or the relationship we have within a team or organization.

Part of what David brings to his coaching is immense diversity in education, training, mentoring, teaching, leadership development and workshop leading, as well as developing and operating several highly successful businesses. He adds to this his own lifelong personal and spiritual growth path.


For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.