Former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull joins Jim and Ray to give his pointed views on what he believes would be a high-risk second Donald Trump Administration on the Indo-Pacific against the relative continuity represented by Vice President Kamala Harris. Citing Trump's narcissism and erratic behavior, Turnbull asserts that the former president's return would unsettle U.S. alliance relationships across the region.

Turning to how foreign leaders can prepare for a possible "Trump 2", Turnbull emphasizes the need to forge a direct relationship with him, as traditional methods of working through senior officials and advisors have limited influence on his decisions. He shares his own experience of dealing with Trump while he was prime minister, such as persuading him not to impose steel tariffs on Australia.

Turnbull also details his objections to the Australia-UK-US (AUKUS) submarine deal. He criticizes the decision to abandon Australia's partnership with France to build diesel-electric submarines and instead opt for nuclear-powered submarines with America and Great Britain. Turnbull argues that this decision undermines Australian sovereignty and poses unacceptable risks due to the potential that limited supplies of U.S. submarines may well result in their being unavailable to meet Australia's needs.

He also discusses how Australia has dealt with China's influence and espionage operations, and specifically why his government was among the world's first to refuse to allow Huawei to build 5G networks in the country.

Ray and Jim discuss the recent tense and sometimes violent maritime confrontations between China and the Philippines with expert Greg Poling, author of "On Dangerous Ground: America's Century in the South China Sea". They consider what these developments mean for America's long-standing alliance commitment to the Philippines, which Greg asserts is finally being treated like a "real ally" on equivalent footing with more developed countries like Japan.

Greg explores the origins of China's vast claims to the South China Sea--including the origins of the so-called "nine-dash line"--and then works through progression of its gray zone campaign from Scarborough Shoal to Second Thomas Shoal to its latest flashpoint at Sabina Shoal.

The conversation turns to the impact of President Rodrigo Duterte's administration (2016-2022), which turned away from the U.S. alliance and leaned hard into its relationship with Beijing.

They also discuss ASEAN's fragmentation over the South China Sea issue and what it means for a future Code of Conduct.

To close, Ray tells the story of his experience in Vietnam when large protests broke out in 2014 over a Chinese oil rig operating in the Gulf of Tonkin.

Ray & Jim talk to Indonesian investment banker, entrepreneur, philanthropist, musician and podcaster Gita Wirjawan, who was also the country's former trade minister from 2011-14. They discuss the significance of Indonesia as the world's third largest democracy and the largest country in Southeast Asia, and its potential to grow its economy and internationalize its profile under incoming President Prabowo Subianto. They discuss Probowo's past allegations of human rights violations, and what implications this has on his future presidency. The conversation touches on topics such as Indonesia's view of its place in the region and in ASEAN; whether it should join the BRICS grouping; its tradition of non-alignment and its perceived security threats; the ongoing relocation of its capital city; and the need for more and different sources of energy and increased foreign direct investment for the country's development.

Afterwards, Jim asks Ray to respond to online rumors that Ray is secretly a U.S. government agent.

Jim and Ray talk to Stanford University scholar Arzan Tarapore, who highlights India's emerging role as an anchor of U.S. security policy in the Indo-Pacific, despite the fact that India values its strategic autonomy. Arzan highlights the growing threat posed to India by China. He emphasizes India's need to prioritize investments in its Navy to counter this challenge, but also lays out concerns that these investments are starting to lag. The conversation also touches on India's relationship with Russia and the balancing act it faces in maintaining partnerships with opposing geopolitical camps.

For our "There I was..." segment, Jim talks about his time among some of the world's top baseball players while he was posted in the Dominican Republic.

Rhombus Power founder and CEO Anshu Roy explains to Ray and Jim how artificial intelligence (AI) has been able to predict future global crises months before they occurred--including events such as the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine and this summer's regime-ending political instability in Bangladesh.

By sifting through vast amounts of data, AI augments and complements human analysis by identifying patterns and anomalies that even the best analysts can easily miss, and then synthesizing them into projections about future events.

Roy further explains how important it is to carefully and continuously curate data sources to prevent AI "hallucinations" as often occur on less sophisticated applications such as ChatGPT. Rhombus incorporates over 500 streams of publicly available and commercial data sources--from satellite service providers to media to socioeconomic data.

In the hands of responsible actors AI has tremendous potential to prevent future conflict and other crises by reducing uncertainty and buying time for better decision-making. However, it can also be a terrifying tool in the hands of our adversaries.

Jim and Ray talk to Indonesian expert Aristyo Darmawan about how international law applies to the contest over the South China Sea. Aristyo explains how a rules-based international order ensures equal footing for all countries, and unpacks the history and significance of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)--particularly from an Indonesian perspective.

They also discuss the challenges and limitations of the ASEAN-China Code of Conduct negotiations, and whether they will ever result in an actual agreement or whether they are being used by Beijing as a delaying tactic while it consolidates control. Specifically, Aristyo answers the question of whether ASEAN is able to address the actual security concerns of a nation under direct threat such as the Philippines currently faces from China.

The conversation concludes with a comparison of Canberra and Jakarta as capital cities, and then Jim tells the story of how his family weathered severe flooding during his tour in Indonesia.

Jim and Ray talk to former Australian Home Affairs Secretary Michael Pezzullo to discuss the critical challenge of defense procurement and weapons production in the face of the looming threat of conflict in the Indo-Pacific while wars rage in Europe and the Middle East. Pezzullo emphasizes the urgent need for the Australia, the U.S. and their allies to address their defense industrial base capacity to deter such a war--or win, if necessary. For Australia he proposes the creation of a statutory commission to streamline the procurement process and speed up production. He also highlights the importance of diplomatic efforts and the need for a collective security agreement in the Pacific region to counter China's strategic ascendancy.

Ray and Jim talk to Dr. Prashanth Parmeswaran, founder of the ASEAN Wonk newsletter, about "ASEAN centrality"--both its importance and the challenges it faces in managing issues in Southeast Asia. ASEAN, a diplomatic grouping of 10 countries in Southeast Asia, sees itself as the primary driving force in managing the region's relations between its members and with external powers, but there are clear limitations to its ability to resolve complex issues like the South China Sea dispute and hydroelectric dams along the Mekong River. The organization operates by consensus, which can be challenging with diverse member states and conflicting interests. The conversation also touches on the varied perceptions of China's role in the region among ASEAN's member states, and their views on minilateral institutions like the Quad and AUKUS.

In this week's "There I was..." segment, Jim and Ray share their experiences with karaoke in Southeast Asian diplomatic circles.