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On the topic of climate change and an increasingly volatile and unprecedented future, the way we think about and structure finance has a key role to play and I have two very special guests - Emeritus Professor Bruce Chapman and Chris Andrew.

Starting with Chris, well, I don't know if I can do justice in describing this extraordinary man. I first met Chris nearly a year ago and I instantly connected to his vision of restorative justice for the role banks have played in financing colonisation in Australia and the massacres, dispossession and marginalisation that First Nations people in this country faced, and the work he was doing on Indigenous designed finance. Chris is a remarkable person. A capital markets guy who recently described himself at his Sydney Ted talk as a reformed banker, has led a truly interesting life. A merchant banker of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, before a series of events from the 911 attacks and a New York resident at the time to a hike on Mt Kosciuszko to now years of being invited into First Nations and Pacifica communities, Chris combines his deep financial knowledge to that of sophisticated First Nations land management and cultural practices in a way that could and probably should play a significant impact in how Australia thinks about Country, agriculture and finance moving forward.

Bruce Chapman is one of Australia's most esteemed economists. His work across externalities, risk management frames for equitable outcomes and contingent lending is immense, and his legacy is recognised by his Emeritus Professor title - the highest honour someone can receive in the academic world here in Australia. Bruce is not just an academic though - his work in the late 1980s in pioneering HECS - Higher Education Contribution Scheme - created a path for hundreds of thousands of Australians to access the benefits of tertiary education when prior to that it was far more likely they wouldn't because of their socioeconomic status. Bruce's work revolutionised higher education in Australia - which has been tampered with and watered down by several conservative governments since the 1990s. We get into The elegance of contingent lending in this episode, so I won't describe it here.

Together these two men represent a powerful allyship to First Nations Australians - but beyond shallow words and often fruitless reconciliation action plans their work has an incredible potential to transform the lives of First Nation Australians and also re-frame how finance in this country is designed and distributed to deal with an increasingly volatile climate system.

Bruce and Chris' work is essential in the pursuit of reconciliation here in Australia and self determination for First Nations people to become a reality. The theme of the October newsletter is help, and this quote reflects the work of Chris and Bruce, and something every non First Nations person in Australia ideally would deeply understand and be working towards just like they are; “allyship is not just about intent. It requires proactive action.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Satyajit Das - or Das - is a man who's worn many hats. Financier, author, traveller, speaker - a strenuous protagonist for evidence and fact. He's a man who wants to understand and take into account the reality of a situation and to look deeply into the meaning of that information, no matter how confronting, surprising or alarming.

Das came to Australia from India in the late 70s, and a career in banking followed, until he had some unexpected life changing expeditions in nature - one in Zaire, now Congo, and the other Antarctica, which seems to have altered his relationship to work and living. He famously predicted the impending global financial crisis in 2006, before being named as one of finance's most influential thinkers by Bloomberg. He's written a tonne of books along the way, and he's on the show today to talk about his most recent - 'Wild Quests'.

I really enjoyed this book, and I have been affected by its contents as well as Das' previous work, especially that of Banquet of Consequences. Under all of our technological progress are worldviews and stories that we are still above and apart from nature, that we can elevate and innovate our way out of whatever the latest dilemma or disaster is. This book tells of the heart wrenching ways by which eco-tourism is negatively affecting remaining pristine landscapes, continuing to drive up emissions through al the travel time and with uncertain and unclear local social and economic benefits.

Wild Quests is a wake up call for how we think of travel, on the whole notion of bucket lists. It forced me to reckon with my own desires and aspirations for visiting some of the world's most lauded landscapes - Patagonia, Alaska, African plains, and Australia's natural landscapes. There are so many places to go, so many options, perhaps though, we need to contemplate the potential and known harms of these trips. Real action on addressing the climate crisis, reversing land degradation and restoring the habitats and lives of non human species requires more than flawed economic models and possessive incursions into the lives of Indigenous inhabitants. Wild Quests starts with the line - “the animals do not want to see us”. What if we did that - what if we just left nature to be nature, to be wild and precious and to just exist without our incursions. As it has for almost forever, free of humanity and all we bring?

Not an easy idea, but Das is in the business of raising these types of ideas and prosecuting them comprehensively.

Das is generously offering Finding Nature listeners a discount on his book Wild Quests that forms much of this conversation. Head to Monash University publishing website and buy the book, and for 20% off use the code birdlife20 - all one word.

Das's work has quite literally been informed by that of Scottish novelist Robert Louis Stevenson, and one of his famous lines is that sooner or later everyone has to sit down to a banquet of consequences - it's fair to say whether or not it's the loss of pristine wilderness, the expanding climate crisis or the disaster that is housing in this country, it might be time to take a seat.

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Regina Featherstone is a Senior Lawyer at the Human Rights Legal Centre and co-authored their recent publication Climate and Environmental Whistleblowing: Information Guide. On Regina, well you know when you meet someone who is clearly a star rising - articulate, steady, eager and virtuous - that is Regina. We didn't have the time today to get into more than just this guide but her background is immensely impressive.

Regina has worked in top corporate law firms but also in community legal centres where she has focussed on migrant worker exploitation and workplace sexual harassment, and for several years worked as a solicitor on Nauru assisting asylum seekers to secure refugee status. To do that work and what she has worked on since, speaks of an incredible moral fibre and a courage that is not conditional - something we talk about in this episode.

And this episode - you'll hear it in the opening, but I was nervous speaking about this topic. Whistleblowing is a contested topic - the actions of the dobber, the mole, the nark, the rat. Personally I don't really get it - I don't see why anyone would go to such an extent to create such danger to themselves if there weren't serious and credible evidence of wrongdoing. But it's often how whistleblowers are perceived that prevents wrongdoings from coming to light.

The Whistleblower Project set up by the Human Rights Law Centre just over a year ago is a remarkable effort to educate, empower and shift how whistleblowers are perceived and dealt with in Australia. It is essential work, which is something Regina shares about, while the specific need for guidance on matters relating to climate and environmental wrongdoings is also fascinating and has the potential to re-shape how the many and lofty future state dreams and fantasies of many organisation's climate and environmental pledges are both made and acted upon. It feels like there is a double sided sword to this, but to really avert the worst outcomes of the already here climate and biodiversity crises, we need truth, no matter it's palatability or the discomfort it causes. These crises are real and based on chemistry, physics and biology - so should the disclosures and actions in response. Without that, we are only further endangering ourselves and the lives of beings to come.

The work of Regina on this guide is not one you'll want summarised though, and I hope this conversation is the beginning for you in becoming curious about going and checking it out, plus the whistleblower project's work more broadly. I can barely think of a more important part of the climate action system at the moment than this - a legitimate channel by which to raise legitimate wrongdoings that harm the future of our ecosystems, our atmosphere and ultimately all of us from now onwards.

The next newsletter comes out next Saturday morning, September 28 - a nod to the good old days of Saturday mornings with coffee and a newspaper and not six jillion content sources to be inundated by. These are longer form reads that are about timeless offerings from people in the finding nature community, and the next edition is on the concept and principle of time.

Regina's work and that of her colleagues is captured by this great line from Pierre Corneille - a 17th-century French dramatist. “Patience and time conquer all things.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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