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On the topic of climate change and an increasingly volatile and unprecedented future, the way we think about and structure finance has a key role to play and I have two very special guests - Emeritus Professor Bruce Chapman and Chris Andrew.

Starting with Chris, well, I don't know if I can do justice in describing this extraordinary man. I first met Chris nearly a year ago and I instantly connected to his vision of restorative justice for the role banks have played in financing colonisation in Australia and the massacres, dispossession and marginalisation that First Nations people in this country faced, and the work he was doing on Indigenous designed finance. Chris is a remarkable person. A capital markets guy who recently described himself at his Sydney Ted talk as a reformed banker, has led a truly interesting life. A merchant banker of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, before a series of events from the 911 attacks and a New York resident at the time to a hike on Mt Kosciuszko to now years of being invited into First Nations and Pacifica communities, Chris combines his deep financial knowledge to that of sophisticated First Nations land management and cultural practices in a way that could and probably should play a significant impact in how Australia thinks about Country, agriculture and finance moving forward.

Bruce Chapman is one of Australia's most esteemed economists. His work across externalities, risk management frames for equitable outcomes and contingent lending is immense, and his legacy is recognised by his Emeritus Professor title - the highest honour someone can receive in the academic world here in Australia. Bruce is not just an academic though - his work in the late 1980s in pioneering HECS - Higher Education Contribution Scheme - created a path for hundreds of thousands of Australians to access the benefits of tertiary education when prior to that it was far more likely they wouldn't because of their socioeconomic status. Bruce's work revolutionised higher education in Australia - which has been tampered with and watered down by several conservative governments since the 1990s. We get into The elegance of contingent lending in this episode, so I won't describe it here.

Together these two men represent a powerful allyship to First Nations Australians - but beyond shallow words and often fruitless reconciliation action plans their work has an incredible potential to transform the lives of First Nation Australians and also re-frame how finance in this country is designed and distributed to deal with an increasingly volatile climate system.

Bruce and Chris' work is essential in the pursuit of reconciliation here in Australia and self determination for First Nations people to become a reality. The theme of the October newsletter is help, and this quote reflects the work of Chris and Bruce, and something every non First Nations person in Australia ideally would deeply understand and be working towards just like they are; “allyship is not just about intent. It requires proactive action.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Satyajit Das - or Das - is a man who's worn many hats. Financier, author, traveller, speaker - a strenuous protagonist for evidence and fact. He's a man who wants to understand and take into account the reality of a situation and to look deeply into the meaning of that information, no matter how confronting, surprising or alarming.

Das came to Australia from India in the late 70s, and a career in banking followed, until he had some unexpected life changing expeditions in nature - one in Zaire, now Congo, and the other Antarctica, which seems to have altered his relationship to work and living. He famously predicted the impending global financial crisis in 2006, before being named as one of finance's most influential thinkers by Bloomberg. He's written a tonne of books along the way, and he's on the show today to talk about his most recent - 'Wild Quests'.

I really enjoyed this book, and I have been affected by its contents as well as Das' previous work, especially that of Banquet of Consequences. Under all of our technological progress are worldviews and stories that we are still above and apart from nature, that we can elevate and innovate our way out of whatever the latest dilemma or disaster is. This book tells of the heart wrenching ways by which eco-tourism is negatively affecting remaining pristine landscapes, continuing to drive up emissions through al the travel time and with uncertain and unclear local social and economic benefits.

Wild Quests is a wake up call for how we think of travel, on the whole notion of bucket lists. It forced me to reckon with my own desires and aspirations for visiting some of the world's most lauded landscapes - Patagonia, Alaska, African plains, and Australia's natural landscapes. There are so many places to go, so many options, perhaps though, we need to contemplate the potential and known harms of these trips. Real action on addressing the climate crisis, reversing land degradation and restoring the habitats and lives of non human species requires more than flawed economic models and possessive incursions into the lives of Indigenous inhabitants. Wild Quests starts with the line - “the animals do not want to see us”. What if we did that - what if we just left nature to be nature, to be wild and precious and to just exist without our incursions. As it has for almost forever, free of humanity and all we bring?

Not an easy idea, but Das is in the business of raising these types of ideas and prosecuting them comprehensively.

Das is generously offering Finding Nature listeners a discount on his book Wild Quests that forms much of this conversation. Head to Monash University publishing website and buy the book, and for 20% off use the code birdlife20 - all one word.

Das's work has quite literally been informed by that of Scottish novelist Robert Louis Stevenson, and one of his famous lines is that sooner or later everyone has to sit down to a banquet of consequences - it's fair to say whether or not it's the loss of pristine wilderness, the expanding climate crisis or the disaster that is housing in this country, it might be time to take a seat.

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Regina Featherstone is a Senior Lawyer at the Human Rights Legal Centre and co-authored their recent publication Climate and Environmental Whistleblowing: Information Guide. On Regina, well you know when you meet someone who is clearly a star rising - articulate, steady, eager and virtuous - that is Regina. We didn't have the time today to get into more than just this guide but her background is immensely impressive.

Regina has worked in top corporate law firms but also in community legal centres where she has focussed on migrant worker exploitation and workplace sexual harassment, and for several years worked as a solicitor on Nauru assisting asylum seekers to secure refugee status. To do that work and what she has worked on since, speaks of an incredible moral fibre and a courage that is not conditional - something we talk about in this episode.

And this episode - you'll hear it in the opening, but I was nervous speaking about this topic. Whistleblowing is a contested topic - the actions of the dobber, the mole, the nark, the rat. Personally I don't really get it - I don't see why anyone would go to such an extent to create such danger to themselves if there weren't serious and credible evidence of wrongdoing. But it's often how whistleblowers are perceived that prevents wrongdoings from coming to light.

The Whistleblower Project set up by the Human Rights Law Centre just over a year ago is a remarkable effort to educate, empower and shift how whistleblowers are perceived and dealt with in Australia. It is essential work, which is something Regina shares about, while the specific need for guidance on matters relating to climate and environmental wrongdoings is also fascinating and has the potential to re-shape how the many and lofty future state dreams and fantasies of many organisation's climate and environmental pledges are both made and acted upon. It feels like there is a double sided sword to this, but to really avert the worst outcomes of the already here climate and biodiversity crises, we need truth, no matter it's palatability or the discomfort it causes. These crises are real and based on chemistry, physics and biology - so should the disclosures and actions in response. Without that, we are only further endangering ourselves and the lives of beings to come.

The work of Regina on this guide is not one you'll want summarised though, and I hope this conversation is the beginning for you in becoming curious about going and checking it out, plus the whistleblower project's work more broadly. I can barely think of a more important part of the climate action system at the moment than this - a legitimate channel by which to raise legitimate wrongdoings that harm the future of our ecosystems, our atmosphere and ultimately all of us from now onwards.

The next newsletter comes out next Saturday morning, September 28 - a nod to the good old days of Saturday mornings with coffee and a newspaper and not six jillion content sources to be inundated by. These are longer form reads that are about timeless offerings from people in the finding nature community, and the next edition is on the concept and principle of time.

Regina's work and that of her colleagues is captured by this great line from Pierre Corneille - a 17th-century French dramatist. “Patience and time conquer all things.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Nina Jankovich is today's guest and she is a world leading expert on the mysterious and imperceptible worlds of mis and disinformation and how information in any and all forms can be weaponised in nefarious, poisonous and pernicious ways that degrade social cohesion, democratic health and how many people - including myself - perceive and make sense of the world.

Nina's personal experience after being appointed by US President Joe Biden to become the Department of Homeland Security's first Executive Director of their Disinformation Governance Board is a harrowing first hand account of the dangers and threats individuals face in a culture divided along ideological lines and where multiple realities of truth exist. In today's conversation we go into what all of this was like for Nina and her loved ones, and how she continues to live in the shadows of the consequences of the seemingly deliberate and dangerous actions of many.

Disinformation - what's that got to do with me? Well, the more I become familiar with and learn about the scourge of disinformation the more I wonder about my own judgement and skills. How do I detect what could be untrue, and what gives me confidence I'm able to consistently and accurately discern and distinguish the information I consume based on the rivers of it I'm exposed to day in day out? There's really no excellent answer to that - my own beliefs and stories that I'm educated, that I do know truth from lie, that I can really tell what is off the mark compared to entirely spot on.

Nina's book How to Lose The Information War is one of the most important books I've read in a very long time. I cannot more strongly recommend you find yourself a copy. I was hooked reading it, swinging between engrossed in what at times felt like a masterly espionage thriller, to enraged and terrified by the extent to which disinformation is deployed and successful in manipulating regular people, through to pessimistic and disappointed again by the governing forces that have failed society through ill-conceived and inadequate responses.

This was such a magnificent experience getting to meet and spend a little time with her while she was here in Sydney recently. The opportunity to speak to someone of such esteem and experience was an honour, and I'm extremely grateful to Nina for offering the chance to chat. I have been deeply affected by Nina's work - her two books How to Lose the Information War and How to be a Woman Online are essential reading. The depths of how information is used to deceive, manipulate, alter and erode the quality of our relationships are difficult to fully ascertain. It's happening though, and it takes each of us as individuals to take responsibility for our own approach to information but also to expect much more from corporate and governmental actors to raise their standards for how this affects us all.

This quote by American military leader Douglas MacArthur is apt for the work that Nina does, the topic and challenge of disinformation and the progressive degradation in societal health it ferments, and the pathway we seem to be on “History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay has not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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Today's guest is Dr Dominique Hes - an author, educator, policy advisor and regenerative thinker. She certainly fits the bill of the change makers and paradigm busters I'm curious speaking with as part of my own quest to understand and contemplate and experiment with how to go about making the world a healthier, safer and more beautiful place.

There was a lot that I took from this chat with Dominique who for nearly three decades has pursued more than just sustainable futures but has been investigating and experimenting in ways by which to bring about real transitions and transformations. Her career, achievements and ongoing work are testament to the breadth of her curiosities and interests, but also her strengths and domains of knowledge. At the moment she is an Advisory Committee Member of the Federal Environment Minister's Circular Economy Ministerial Advisory Group, the Chair of the Board of Directors at Greenfleet and an adjunct fellow at Griffith University. She is deeply connected to and working with community driven regenerative projects across housing, agriculture and urban landscape renewal.

Dominique is a distinguished guest and someone who for two decades has been on the forefront of regenerative development - not regenerative in the sense of a framework or tool but a fundamentally different frame of understanding and being in relationship with self, each other and country - to be of service and generous in how you show up to support and cultivate vitality, vibrancy and longevity. This mindset and posture can seem untenable with what too often seems like a fixation on value extraction, resource optimisation and perpetual growth. Part of today's chat is about the limitations of finance as it is currently constructed, the inherent constraints that exist with what and how monetary systems value life and relationships and reality, but also how worrying too much about those limitations and constraints can become a blocker for progress.

Excellent things happen by doing excellent things. Keep showing up, maintain patience, be generous, bring people together, have fun, celebrate the successes, learn from the failures, take responsibility, combine curiosity with action, bit by bit. This chat was a pleasure, and I hope you take hope in the form of getting into action from it.

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Today's guest is a special one, and a little shorter than normal. Kevin Bell's prestigious career is incredible - in 2024 he received an award of Officer of the Order of Australia for his 'distinguished service to the law and to the judiciary, and to human rights through education and reform. For fifteen years from 2005-2020, Kevin was a Justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria, where he sat in all divisions of the court. During that time he played a pivotal role in the implementation and operation of the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 within the Victorian legal system. He was the Commissioner of the Yoorook Justice Commission from 2021 to 2023, and is also the inaugural patron of Tenants Victoria. His CV, credentials and achievements are immense, but today he is on the show to talk about his excellent but harrowing book Housing: The Great Australian Right.

If you're in Australia, you know people here have a pathological obsession with it. From owning it, renovating it, watching shows about it, scrolling property search apps, talking about it, going to Bunnings seemingly at every opportunity. That's barely the picture though - Australia is in the midst of a housing disaster, one where there has never been more homeless people in this country, more people in insecure housing, more people in unaffordable housing and never as much mortgage debt. The system is fundamentally broken in just about every way for the majority of Australians. Yet the debate about the problem is reduced to mediocre and divisive arguments about supply, immigration and funding. Kevin's book is a must read, one I cannot impress every single one of you out there get a copy of and read. It's informative, moving and imaginative. It paints a picture of the historical context of housing in Australia and how this disaster has materialised as a form of slow violence over years, decades and centuries, going back to colonisation, terra nulius and the implantation of the British property system.

As a person who experiences a version of housing insecurity - someone who is having his rights adversely affected - this is personally very important to me. It should be to every single Australian - housing is the foundation of every individual's prospects in their life and for their human rights to be protected, respected and fulfilled.

I'm conscious human rights can often seem like something fluffy, soft, unnecessary. How is it though that Australia is the only western liberal democracy without a Bill of Rights or Human Rights Act? Why is it that every major governmental or corporate mess or the results of royal commissions seem to be rooted in the simple realisation that the rights of the affected people were dismissed, harmed or violated? Kevin talks about human rights simply being noted by Australians - be that in legislation or in corporate policy documents. Housing, the climate crisis, aged care, First Nations peoples, domestic violence - each of these complex problem fields and many others are underpinned by a misunderstanding, a complacency or a dismissiveness of what we all hold valuable and expect as humans - our inalienable rights and fundamental freedoms are protected, respected and fulfilled.

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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David Cooke is a man likely familiar to many out there. A business leader of serious repute who through his own personal journey transformed the practices and cultures of the businesses he led and worked at. Most notably David spent eight years as the Managing Director and Chairman of Konica Minolta here in Australia, but has also held the position of Chair at the United National Global Compact Australia and the UNSW's Human Rights Institute Advisory Committee, he was a roundtable member of Westpac's Safer Children Safer Communities programme, and is now an author of his first book - Kind Business Values Create Value; A corporate world reimagined where people and planet are placed at the heart of leadership decisions.

A man of stillness who has practised transcendental meditation for more than fifty years and has brought a powerful spiritual and humanistic approach to management and leadership, all for the betterment of people, society and the environment. He exemplifies the type of person and the characteristics many of us wish were the leaders of the organisation we work at - the qualities of leadership he espouses and encourages in this book are nothing short of radical to what is the status quo - sadly and tragically.

Real world problems like the climate crisis, the housing crisis, the domestic violence violence, the scams crisis, the biodiversity crisis - there is no shortage of societal and environmental crisis out there. They have one common origin to me - a crisis in the soul of humanity and the priorities and qualities of leaders in organisations around the world. If we truly cared, if we truly had empathy, or compassion, or awareness - not emails or statements that simply described what was important - but truly in the sense that intention equated to action, I deeply believe many of the real problems and crisis our planet and all species face would be reduced, maybe even eradicated. Speaking to David reminded me of the power of stillness, the strength that comes from spending time in deep presence with self. Maybe this is all too woo woo - but is our approach to doing more more quickly getting us where we hope to get to?

I remember hearing Deepak Chopra responding to a question about the chance humanity had to build back better in the middle of the Covid lockdowns in 2020 - he replied; 'build back better. It's more likely we'll just go more quickly to the next crisis'. He meant this in the context that we rush, we crave, we urge, we desire - but what if slowing down really was the paradoxical answer we are looking for? And in that stillness we come to deeply appreciate, recognise and embody that a new paradigm of operating at the surface level of actions and behaviours requires a deeper paradigm shift - one that involves kindness, stillness, reflection, care, pride.

The theme for the newsletter this month is mavericks, and as we heard, David's approach to business leadership could be considered to be pretty radical. His life in practising transcendental meditation twice daily your fifty years has delivered him great clarity and helped him go from having an intention of caring for others and being kind to really doing that in practice consistently and regularly. It reminds me of one of my favourite quotes - 'I've never had to work so hard to stay so still'.

Until next time, thanks for listening

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Today's episode is a real honour to be sharing. Alexander Pui is the guest, and he is an old colleague and someone I hold closely as a professional and person. He has been developing a significant volume of work across his career in both academia and industry for two decades, working in some of Australia and the broader region's largest and most influential organisations.

Alex is an engineer and lawyer by training, received a PhD for his work in applied statistics specific to understanding hydrology and flood risk in the context of a changing climate, and is now a fellow of the University of NSW's Climate Change Research Centre and works up in Japan leading climate risk engagements for many of Asia's largest businesses. He has and continues to do outstanding work, especially at the frontlines of trying to merge and blend the incredibly complex science of a changing climate with the daily pragmatism and operational efficiency of large corporates. His work in exploring why there is such a discrepancy in how scientists describe the perils of a changing climate and the existential threat it poses to human and non-human life as we know it compared to the largely benign or muted results of individual - organisational climate scenario work is outstanding.

We chat about a lot in this conversation - it's a bit of a climate101 primer, how climate does or doesn't fit into enterprise risk management frameworks, the necessity of collaboration and crossing into new disciplines and worldview, the challenge of balancing urgent action against all that is uncertain or unknown about how a changing climate will affect economies and societies, incentives, being the green sheep of his family and how to be the change as a translator and connector of disciplines, skills and knowledge sets.

The theme for the newsletter this month is mavericks, and the work Alex does, what many of us do, requires some of the maverick spirit. An unorthodoxy in thinking and being that seeks to highlight hypocrisy, challenge norms and pursue curiously. I've seen it firsthand with Alex - unconditional courage despite the consequences.

Arguably the first climate maverick was James Hansen, the NASA scientist who testified in front of the US Senate in 1988 on climate change. I can't decide if it would have been easier or more difficult to speak about climate change in that period. A changing climate wasn't part of the mainstream zeitgeist at the time, and it may have seemed like an impossibility to many that humans could change the climate through their collective actions so sharing something so incredulous possibly seemed insane. Perhaps though, the lack of politicised nonsense about the problem and its necessary responses were still to arise and maybe that meant it could just be said.

Regardless, James Hansen was and remains a maverick, and in 1988, in that public setting he announced “Global warming is not a prediction. It is happening.” And yet here we are 36 years later.

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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