Bernard and Alex discuss the news that after being an MSP since 1999, Nicola Sturgeon has announced that she will not stand for re-election at the next Scottish Parliament election.

Why has she done this?

A look back at her career

What does it mean for the SNP?

What was she like to work with?

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PART 2 of the Ponsonby and Massie Podcast interview with the First Minister, John Swinney

In his most in-depth and revealing interview since becoming Scotland's First Minister, John Swinney joins Bernard Ponsoby and Alex Massie:

FEAR FOR SURVIVAL OF THE SNP

* On Humza Yousaf resigning after the collapse of the Bute House agreement "If I go back to that period, which was really, really difficult, I feared for the stability of the government, I feared actually for the survival of the SNP, to be honest. I thought things were in such a bad place."

COLLEAGUE CRIED WHEN HE SAID HE'D STAND

* Recalling a colleague who shared his concerns "I said, well, I'm thinking about it [standing for First Minister] and they burst into tears".

CREDITS BLAIR GOVERNMENT ON CHILD POVERTY

* Swinney gives credit to Labour on Child Poverty "the achievements of the Blair Brown government, the first decade of this century really made an impact on eroding levels of child poverty in our society".

DEFINES HIS RELIGIOUS FAITH

* In a discussion about faith, the First Minister was asked "what does Jesus Christ mean to you personally?". He answered "the love of others, the love and service of others. That's what my Christian faith means to me..... I'd be perfectly happy to talk about that. I don't opt to go on to a podium to do so."

MAKES NO APOLOGIES ON FAMILY JOINING OFFICIAL ENGAGEMENTS

* On taking his family to official events "sometimes there's a bit of a hullabaloo about taking members of your family to particular occasions. I make no apology for it because if I didn't do that, I'd hardly see them."

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Part 1 of 2. In his most in-depth and wide ranging interview since becoming First Minister of Scotland, John Swinney joins Bernard and Alex.

• "I was exhausted" when Nicola Sturgeon stood down in 2023. My year out revitalised me and allowed me to become First Minister.
• If I'm elected as First Minister in 2026, I'll stand again in 2031.
• 2024 General Election was a "punishing defeat" delivered by people "disappointed in the SNP".
• The SNP government needs to rebuild trust by showing the electorate it is delivering.
• Independence will be in the manifesto and a referendum if there's the appetite.
• I have sympathy on Council Tax but won't re-value properties.

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