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Nina Jankovich is today's guest and she is a world leading expert on the mysterious and imperceptible worlds of mis and disinformation and how information in any and all forms can be weaponised in nefarious, poisonous and pernicious ways that degrade social cohesion, democratic health and how many people - including myself - perceive and make sense of the world.

Nina's personal experience after being appointed by US President Joe Biden to become the Department of Homeland Security's first Executive Director of their Disinformation Governance Board is a harrowing first hand account of the dangers and threats individuals face in a culture divided along ideological lines and where multiple realities of truth exist. In today's conversation we go into what all of this was like for Nina and her loved ones, and how she continues to live in the shadows of the consequences of the seemingly deliberate and dangerous actions of many.

Disinformation - what's that got to do with me? Well, the more I become familiar with and learn about the scourge of disinformation the more I wonder about my own judgement and skills. How do I detect what could be untrue, and what gives me confidence I'm able to consistently and accurately discern and distinguish the information I consume based on the rivers of it I'm exposed to day in day out? There's really no excellent answer to that - my own beliefs and stories that I'm educated, that I do know truth from lie, that I can really tell what is off the mark compared to entirely spot on.

Nina's book How to Lose The Information War is one of the most important books I've read in a very long time. I cannot more strongly recommend you find yourself a copy. I was hooked reading it, swinging between engrossed in what at times felt like a masterly espionage thriller, to enraged and terrified by the extent to which disinformation is deployed and successful in manipulating regular people, through to pessimistic and disappointed again by the governing forces that have failed society through ill-conceived and inadequate responses.

This was such a magnificent experience getting to meet and spend a little time with her while she was here in Sydney recently. The opportunity to speak to someone of such esteem and experience was an honour, and I'm extremely grateful to Nina for offering the chance to chat. I have been deeply affected by Nina's work - her two books How to Lose the Information War and How to be a Woman Online are essential reading. The depths of how information is used to deceive, manipulate, alter and erode the quality of our relationships are difficult to fully ascertain. It's happening though, and it takes each of us as individuals to take responsibility for our own approach to information but also to expect much more from corporate and governmental actors to raise their standards for how this affects us all.

This quote by American military leader Douglas MacArthur is apt for the work that Nina does, the topic and challenge of disinformation and the progressive degradation in societal health it ferments, and the pathway we seem to be on “History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay has not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster.”

Until next time, thanks for listening.

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